London Riots...

[grnidone]

re:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8692429/London-riots-Bleeding-I-called-999.-A-tired-man-told-me-to-go-home.html

bold added by me:

The big black boy rode his bike straight at me, crashing me off my own and leaving us both tangled up on the ground. Then four more of them were racing towards me, clawing at my legs to get them off my bike, kicking me in the head as I tried to hold on.

If that guy said that in the States, he'd be b###h slapped so fast by a big black woman it'd make his head spin.  And he'd have no idea why...

Hell, I'd be tempted to slap him.  Actually, I'd probably pull him aside and tell him why that kind of talk AIN'T OK.  What a racist fuck.

_{No, I'm not saying it's ok for what happened to him to happen, but really, his language, for a public newspaper is absolutely inexcusable.}

[dogboy]

>http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/jedlz/dear_america_regarding_the_london_riots/

• My impression of the situation seems to be in agreement with his interpretation of what happened, so I don't see why he thinks I don't get it.
• It seems Americans are keying in on the 'Class' tone that we as Americans are kinda hypersensitive to, in regards to skin color and race, but that is more of a side issue.
• The issue of the shooting seems possibly justifiable to me.... he's a bad guy, probably doing something shady, and he has a gun in a country that outlaws them... hell, I might shoot him if he sneezed wrong:) It's not like it turned out to be a fake gun, or widget that looks like a gun.... it was a gun. Those cops had reason to be in fear for their life.
• plus, having a concealed carry permit in this country is not like the 'diplomatic immunity' scene in Leathal Weapon it just means you can carry a concealed weapon and disclaim that you have a permit before they put their knee in the back of your neck.

[rcjordan]

I think you're suffering from being overly politically correct, G.  Substitute "white" for "black" and boy seems an appropriate description.  "Young man" seems out of place describing a looter.

[dogboy]

>black boy
But this really is an American hangup. Over there, they don't have the same history as we do, so saying someone is a 'black boy' is just a description and nothing more.

I think there is an undercurrent of a class snobbery thing going on as well, but that is just one of those endearing British traits, but has nothing to do with skin color:)

[Rooftop]

re:  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8692429/London-riots-Bleeding-I-called-999.-A-tired-man-told-me-to-go-home.html

bold added by me:

The big black boy rode his bike straight at me, crashing me off my own and leaving us both tangled up on the ground. Then four more of them were racing towards me, clawing at my legs to get them off my bike, kicking me in the head as I tried to hold on.

If that guy said that in the States, he'd be b###h slapped so fast by a big black woman it'd make his head spin.  And he'd have no idea why...

Hell, I'd be tempted to slap him.  Actually, I'd probably pull him aside and tell him why that kind of talk AIN'T OK.  What a racist f###.

_{No, I'm not saying it's ok for what happened to him to happen, but really, his language, for a public newspaper is absolutely inexcusable.}

I think that sentance probably reads very differently from the other side of the atlantic.  Assuming it was a young man on the bike it reads absolutely fine from my safe middle class part of England.  I don't think "boy" has the racial connotation here at all.  If he was large, black, young and male it seems like a fair description. If the others were boys the same applies to the "them".  In fact the article doesn't say or suggest the race of the others in the group - just the sex.

What's the old saying? Two nations divided by a common tongue?

[dogboy]

>Two nations divided by a common tongue?

yeah, I think we all posted this at the same time:)

[Gurtie]

yup, and I almost made the same point again!

>> endearing

Andrew Gillighan isn't especially endearing though, to be honest

[nicebloke]

Some nice stuff happening:  http://somethingniceforashraf.tumblr.com/

[Rooftop]

ack. I must be a horrible cynic.  Tell me I am not the only one wondering whether that somethingnice site is genuine.

[4Eyes]

Pedants corner time again

As I understand it, there is a historical reason for why 'boy' has racist connotations in the US, and none in the UK.

Slavery was abolished in Great Britain in 1772, (although abolition was only extended to the Empire in 1833).

Even before that comparatively few slaves were based in the UK, they were mostly used overseas on the plantations etc. Same 'crime', but less visible to the UK based 'brit on the street'. The opportunity to use 'boy' in a racist manner was somewhat more limited than in the US. That isn't to say that we don't/didn't have plenty of racism, just that the word 'boy' never really became part of it.

The black population of the UK is mostly descended from immigrants 'welcomed' into the UK after the war to help with the manpower shortage. Although many are originally descended from those forced to work as slaves in the Caribbean, they have a different history, and  a different set of grievances compared to those in the US - same obstacle of 'racism', of course, just a different background.

[dogboy]

> 'boy' has racist connotations in the US
I don't know about origins, but I don't think it's necessarily 'racist' here, but it definitely can be condescending, depending on the situation and tone.  I think it's partially because most of the time, the speaker is the proverbial 'man' in charge ...and in the 'rock, paper, scissors' of American family life, 'boy' actually loses to 'girl' at this age because boys are supposedly more able to do more hard work... which obviously means, statistically speaking, the phrase that comes after 'boy...' is usually going to be a menial task no one else wants to do.

But, if the man speaking has a Southern drawl, and it comes out sounding kinda like 'boyahhh'... and the the guy he says that to happens to be black... well, if we were in a crowd, I bet most heads would turn quick in that direction to see what happened next:)

Honestly, I think the confusion is simply that Americans hear the class issue and red flags are going up.  The author of that article excuses something he said earlier (that apparently pissed off some yanks) by classifying scum into a bunch of different classes and it was obvious there was an unstated hierarchy to argument he was trying to hide like a pink elephant under the coffee table. The more he explained, the worse it sounded. He says its about scum, they hear its about class.  Then they look for the proverbial black sheep (which happens in this case to be a 'black boy') and they run for the touchdown, blind to any further argument.

[mick g]

here in the UK I was of the understanding that he is not a man due to his age so he is called a boy........that simple !!!

also called
lad
sprog
kid
bin lid (cockney rhyming slang for kid)

and as many swear words there are available if he had just trashed anything I own

[dogboy]

You know after watching the videos, that could just as easily be here.  I keep thinking how little it takes to spark people into riot.  Imagine if they really had a reason. Imagine what life would be like in a city. Wow, don't get me going...

[Gurtie]

Old spice riot advice.

http://adland.tumblr.com/post/8776192184/hello-rioters-look-at-your-friend-now-back-to-me

[Rooftop]

oh well, if enough time has passed for jokes to start may I add: http://photoshoplooter.tumblr.com