Author Topic: The changed future after CV-19  (Read 123938 times)

Travoli

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #180 on: April 19, 2021, 03:08:52 PM »
One of Travis Kalanick's Cloud Kitchens is opening nearby. 40 kitchens, half leased.
Three chicken-focused kitchens with "edgy" Clucker names in the same building. Yikes.
The kitchen owners and delivery services will make money. The chefs, well...

https://5610foodco.com/

rcjordan

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #181 on: June 16, 2021, 06:14:17 PM »
"Futurists have talked for years about an economy based on more automation and artificial intelligence. Thanks to the pandemic, we might finally get it."

Rising Wages Herald a New Era of Jobless Growth - Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-06-11/rising-wages-herald-a-new-era-of-jobless-growth

rcjordan

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #182 on: July 02, 2021, 02:28:18 PM »
Well, of course they are.


Restaurants are starting to hire robots instead of people who are demanding higher pay

https://www.businessinsider.com/labor-shortage-automation-restaurants-hiring-employment-productivity-job-market-outlook-2021-7

ergophobe

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #183 on: July 02, 2021, 10:31:11 PM »
It always makes me think of Grapes of Wrath, chapter 5. Back then the headline was, "Large farms hire tractors to replace expensive farm laborers and mules," but despite about 85 years since that chapter was written, it feels surprisingly contemporary.

Quote
That man sitting in the iron seat did not look like a man; gloved, goggled, rubber dust mask over nose and mouth, he was a part of the monster, a robot in the seat … The driver could not control it – straight across country it went, cutting through a dozen farms and straight back...

"Nearly a hundred people have to go out and wander the roads for your three dollars a day. Is that right?"

And the driver said, "I can't think about that. Got to think of my own kids. Three dollars a day and it comes every day."

rcjordan

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #184 on: July 02, 2021, 10:59:06 PM »
>surprisingly contemporary

The feel-good bullshit at the end didn't phase you, eh?

"Americans who would've been taking orders and busing tables could develop new, more valuable skills as low-wage jobs are taken over by tech. Past periods of massive innovation — from the industrial revolution to the dot-com boom — didn't eliminate jobs, but shifted them elsewhere."

rcjordan

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #185 on: July 09, 2021, 04:59:46 PM »
Slideshow: Companies such as Hudson and McDonald’s are testing drive-thru AI, invisible checkout

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-viz-hudson-white-castle-technology-photos-20210709-6lca744vk5gqzk6lefvguqkcem-photogallery.html

ergophobe

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #186 on: July 09, 2021, 06:45:20 PM »
>surprisingly contemporary

The feel-good bullshit at the end didn't phase you, eh?

"Americans who would've been taking orders and busing tables could develop new, more valuable skills as low-wage jobs are taken over by tech. Past periods of massive innovation — from the industrial revolution to the dot-com boom — didn't eliminate jobs, but shifted them elsewhere."

I did, in fact, almost comment on that stuff at the end and to some extent meant my mention of GoW to be aimed at that.

I think it's utter nonsense. I would say that's a default view of mine. I'm skeptical of any arguments based on "the greater good" (Stalinism, Nazism, Grindelwaldism).

It's why I'm generally not very open to the argument that I have heard from friends who work in zoos that say, "Yes, the animals are in confined spaces that are two small for them, but zoos are important for preserving the species." So in the case of some very rare animals that have tiny populations outside of zoos, a high percentage are kept in captivity in the name of the good of the species (and I do feel different about a "luxury" zoo where they can roam, but my experience of zoos has always left me so depressed that I just can't go).

That's how I feel when I read comments like the one you quoted.

We use the term "Luddite" to mean someone who is hopelessly and ignorantly against new technology. But the original Luddites were right. They believed that their quality of life would decrease as weaving shifted from a skilled artisanal activity to a factory occupation. And it did. Those populations did not recover until the great grandchildren of the original Luddite protesters entered the workforce. The Luddites and their children were made much worse off and (I think I have this right) the negative effects were still visible among their grandchildren.

So yes, in the long run and on average, automation will improve lives, but we as humans live as in the short run and as individuals. I expect the the short-run effect will be to concentrate wealth.

Exhibit B. Grapes of Wrath. That's sort of the point of the chapter I quoted from. Sure, in the long run we are all more prosperous because we've gone from a society where over half of all people were employed in agriculture to one where only 2% or so are. That's a complete inversion since the Middle Ages, by the way. On average and in the long run, it's been amazing. We have antibiotics and polio vaccine and central heat and climate-controlled self-propelled wagons. But for those like the Joads who were dispossessed of their land, it was not great to live through.

I think you can say something similar after a tour of Detroit, Youngstown and many other once-prosperous towns of the Midwest.

So I expect that the dislocation will be painful in the short run, even if it is beneficial in the long run. And unlike the previous dislocations, it will hit not just a couple of big sectors like fast food workers (maybe we are better off losing most of those jobs), but huge numbers of people who wear nice shoes and sit behind computers all day. Like the artisan weavers and the independent farmers and autoworkers in the heyday, they think of themselves as one or two rungs up the social ladder with a solid way to make a living, so they will find it hard to be kicked to the bottom. Some of us will be adaptable and thrive, and some of us will join up with Ned Ludd and attack the factories.

And given that any problems we have from automation will be compounded by climate change, I think the "short run" might not be very short this time.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 07:18:14 PM by ergophobe »

rcjordan

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #187 on: July 25, 2021, 01:54:52 PM »
Some retail apocalypse, some covid related.


The experiences replacing closed High Street stores - BBC News
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-57934829

Drastic

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ergophobe

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #189 on: August 11, 2021, 05:18:22 PM »
The Google spokesperson says that they always paid based on where people lived, but I'm guessing that not precisely correct. I assume that in the Before Times, the pay was adjusted based on where they worked, which makes sense when you are requiring people to show up at a specific location. People with massive long commutes did not get paid less because they lived in Stamford, CN.

Then, they were incentivizing people to move to the super expensive places where Google has its offices. Totally sensible. Now it seems like it is incentivizing the wrong thing. By their logic, I could work for the Kansas City office and get a raise by leaving my home one block from my office that I go to in person and moving to SF and working remotely.

It seems like it should be a step function.
 - you choose to show up in person, you get one rate
 - you choose not to, you get another rate.

Either showing up in person has value or it doesn't. If it doesn't have value, why do I get paid more for living close to the office, even though I don't actually go in? It's like some weird social engineering to entice people to live in costlier places.

I don't really understand.

nffc

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #190 on: August 11, 2021, 06:58:15 PM »
One month later: These maps show how quickly Covid engulfed the US again

More than 98% of US residents now live in an area where there is a "high" or "substantial" risk of Covid-19 community transmission, up from 19% of residents only a month ago.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/11/health/one-month-later-these-maps-show-how-quickly-covid-engulfed-the-us-again/index.html

littleman

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #191 on: August 12, 2021, 02:58:18 AM »
I drove past an anti-mask rally in Tahoe this weekend.  They had kids holding signs saying stuff like "let us breath".

Rupert

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #192 on: August 12, 2021, 05:35:45 AM »
So much time on their hands they can waste it on an "anti-mask" rally!  Wow!

Either very rich or very poor?  Tahoe, I guess rich?

Mask use is almost non existent in the UK petrol forecourts and pubs and cafes in the UK (midlands).  The odd person does, but 80% don't. Its not law to, it left to individual choice.
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DrCool

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #193 on: August 12, 2021, 05:50:59 PM »
>anti-mask rally

A friend of mine posted yesterday trying to get people to go to an anti-mask rally in front of the school admin building here. The current plan is for masks to be required again at schools this fall. Overall I have been seeing more and more masks in stores again even though there isn't any sort of mandate yet.

littleman

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Re: The changed future after CV-19
« Reply #194 on: August 12, 2021, 11:56:39 PM »
>Either very rich or very poor?  Tahoe, I guess rich?

There is a mix up there.  In the US anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers are in every income bracket; overall they lean right, but there are some on the left too.  You would be surprised by the nonsense some middle class Americans believe in.