Author Topic: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale  (Read 3049 times)

rcjordan

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littleman

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2017, 06:19:38 PM »
So many modern people have a disconnect between the animals they eat for their enjoyment and the suffering they endure.  I'm sure this pig lived and died better than those in the meat industry.  That said, when I was about the age of those kids in the photo I was at a party where they slaughtered a pig and it stuck with me.

I've read before that the actual reason why eating pork was taboo in the Abrahamic religions wasn't based on hygiene but was because the pig's characteristics are a bit too close to human.

ergophobe

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2017, 03:23:33 PM »
So many modern people have a disconnect between the animals they eat for their enjoyment and the suffering they endure.  

It always bothers me when some "animal lover" accosts a hunter and says "how could you shoot an animal?" It's such a disconnect between the free and wild life that animal lived, with a short suffering at the end, compared to the endless pain and cruelty in factory farming. So hypocritical.

I actually knew a man in Switzerland who would be about 100 now and he was one of the last traditional butchers in French Switzerland. He was quite elderly but worked all the time, riding his motorcycle from farm to farm, because when small farmers had an animal to kill, the wanted Georges because he used the whole animal and had the best sausage. Little went to waste, which is another difference between a traditional butcher and the factory system.

I just don't get this protest. What this butcher is doing bothers me so much less cruel than what Purdue does or any of the industrial farming operations.

taboo in the Abrahamic religions wasn't based on hygiene but was because the pig's characteristics are a bit too close to human.

The hygiene explanation is fairly modern as I understand it. I doubt the "too close to human" one too.  That would not explain the prohibitions on shellfish.

One of the more compelling explanations, from Mary Douglass, is that the prohibitions cover "category violations." That is, in ancient thinking, fish have fins. Shellfish do not, and yet live in the water, so violate the category. For pigs I forget how it goes... something about a mismatch between their hooves and the type of animal they are, so they don't fit into Biblical categories of grazing animals or something like that.

This is a pretty good rundown: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-anthropological-reason-Jews-do-not-eat-shellfish

I would point out that to a traditional Jew, all of these answers are "reductionist," attempting to explain away a sacred matter. For such a person, the reason would be that it was ordained by God. End of discussion.

littleman

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2017, 05:59:35 PM »
That  "category violations" concept is interesting.  I never thought of food in that way but I could see how people could see eating oddball animals as dangerous, like it would expose them to a type of black magic.  Good thing the ancient Hebrews didn't have platypus swimming around the Jordan river.

littleman

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2017, 06:12:30 PM »
>I just don't get this protest.

Yeah.  I am sure there are some true vegans who don't consume any animal products who would use this opportunity to further their cause.  Yet, I bet the bulk of people upset are meat eaters who would rather not think about it.  BTW, my 12 year old will not eat anything warm blooded, fish are OK and she'll eat eggs.  She's coming up on a year of eating this way.  In her attempt to find alternative protein sources she's even tried insects she bought in a Korean grocery store; I don't think she was a fan.

rcjordan

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2017, 06:42:41 PM »
>meat eaters who would rather not think about it

Bingo! That's the American Way.  

I live in a Big Pork and Big Chicken mass animal farming area. What goes on in an industrial-scale pig parlor or chicken shed is worse than the actual slaughtering. A human subjected to the same treatment would consider death to be a blessing.

Brad

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2017, 07:40:30 PM »
It's suburbanite syndrome. Everything is Nice in the suburbs. This is where the snowflakes grew up with helicopter parents. We are too many generations removed from our agricultural origins.

rcjordan

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2017, 09:33:24 PM »
After my grandfather retired from being a professional hunting guide because of the Depression, he raised my mom on a small, 50-acre farm.  She was always extremely empathetic and I think she really had a tough, almost traumatic, time coping with the business-as-usual aspect of killing animals for food. My dad grew up on a very large farm.  For both of them, time for the annual "hog killing" was ingrained in them as a big seasonal event even though they had lived in cities and towns for decades.  

On my dad's farm, I know from stories that the hog killing, butchering, salting, rendering, etc. went on for days and involved hired 'specialists' (an elderly black man who could kill a big, dangerous boar with a single blow of a hammer between the eyes, for example) and lots of hands and household staff.

It was a big deal for the family, large or small farm.

DrCool

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2017, 12:48:49 AM »
>>For both of them, time for the annual "hog killing" was ingrained in them as a big seasonal event even though they had lived in cities and towns for decades.

Growing up we had a small farm with a couple cows, a few pigs, chickens, rabbits, etc. I remember butchering day was one of my favorite days. My grandpa and a couple uncles would come over, we would kill the pigs and cows and hang them up from the barn, and go through the whole butchering process. We would of course chop the chickens heads off and pluck them. When we wanted rabbit for dinner we would go get one, snap its neck, skin and gut it, and it would be on the table an hour later.

I would love it if elementary schools had required field trips to farms for a butchering. Not of course the big factory farms but a small farm that does it "right". I think it would give everyone a better appreciation for their food.

And a dream of mine is to someday own a butcher shop/restaurant. I wouldn't necessarily want to raise or slaughter the animals (let the experts do that) but I would do all the breaking down of the animals and cooking. Probably about a 1% chance of that ever happening but it would be fun. 

ergophobe

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 02:07:57 AM »
I would love it if elementary schools had required field trips to farms for a butchering. Not of course the big factory farms

I would say both actually. That general sentiment is the idea behind the "pizza farms" where they grow all the ingredients for pizza. I read an interview with the person who started the first one and he said the idea came to him when talking to kids and realizing that most kids didn't know which ingredients in a pepperoni pizza were animal and which were vegetable.

>>field trips

I think about this often. I had a great fourth grade teacher, and I still remember those field trips. We did not go to a butcher, but we did go to a hydropower plant, wastewater treatment plant, water treatment plant, a large-scale commercial bakery, a dairy farm and a couple of others. I think most of what I learned about basic infrastructure came from those trips. To this day, that is the only time I've been in a city-scale water treatment plant.

buckworks

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 04:10:41 AM »
>> better appreciation for their food.

I have raised and butchered chickens, and it does indeed give you more respect for the meat on your plate. It also made me a fanatic about making sure ALL leftovers got used.

Our kids participated on butchering day, and they concluded that if we did things right, death would happen so fast the chicken wouldn't have time to even get scared. I'm convinced the meat tastes better when there's no time for fear!

I used to joke that we composted all our food scraps, but we'd run them through the chickens first.

>> on the table an hour later

That's a big advantage of small livestock: you can keep them alive right until they're needed. A family that cooked a chicken or rabbit would have a reasonable chance to use it up while it was still fresh enough to be enjoyable. That's especially significant in times and places where refrigeration wasn't/isn't available.

Black pepper was worth a fortune in times past because it could disguise the taste of meat that was going "off", making your meat usable for an extra day or two.

rcjordan

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2017, 02:04:19 PM »
>> on the table an hour later

As I've said, this mildly traumatized my mother even though she grew up in what would best be described as *very* rural, Depression Era farm (no electricity) with meat supply supplemented by hunting.  She certainly wasn't a snowflake nor would the lifestyle of her times allow helicoptering --just the opposite.

Those who have traveled with us know that Louise is the poster child for the Meat-Eaters-Who-Would-Rather-Not-Think-About-It group.  Though she was raised in the city suburbs, there was a _constant_ supply of wild game & fish in her household, so there was plenty of cleaning and butchering in her childhood. 

Young Me has field-dressed wounded Mourning Doves with my bare hands (8 or 9 on the Barbaric Scale) but I could only do it in an emergency now. Same for butchering a deer/rabbit/squirrel.

>>Pizza

Brilliant!  Then take them on a tour: Chicken Nuggets: from Egg to Happy Meal. That ought to do it.

Rumbas

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2017, 04:14:55 PM »
Old but still current and they keep dissecting animals for the public to see:

Marius the giraffe killed at Copenhagen zoo despite worldwide protests
Young giraffe unsuitable for breeding was shot, dissected in public and then fed to lions despite offers of a new home
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/09/marius-giraffe-killed-copenhagen-zoo-protests

gm66

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2017, 05:42:17 PM »
When i was about 10 i watched a doc where tribesmen were killing a pig by repeatedly spearing it with only the speartip going in, about 6 tribesmen, that really stuck with me (no pun intended!).

I've been veggy since the age of 7 (apart from the odd bacon butty when hungover :/) and factory-farming is the one that pisses me off, this wasn't cruel it was just public.
Civilisation is a race between disaster and education ...

rcjordan

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Re: 0/10 on the Snowflake Scale
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2017, 05:56:33 PM »
>veggy since

Generation Z is creating a $5 billion market for fake meat and seafood

http://www.businessinsider.com/generation-z-is-eating-fake-meat-2017-10